#11  
Alt 29.09.2018, 01:58
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Hi Robert,

I sent you a PN.

About that Cammin Carl Wilhelm Ferdinand Freyenhagen; his parents Johann Friedrich Freynhagen and his mother Charlotte Henriette Eliesabeth Cochoÿ married in Cammin on may 6th, 1814. In 1835 she gets remarried as widow in Gramenz to a Johann Friedrich Henning.
So at least the father is dead by 1850, but I haven't found any death reports of either parent yet. Nevertheless, this family is a good candidate if we can find other links to corroborate the theory.

Greetings,
Antje
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  #12  
Alt 29.09.2018, 11:46
Freienhagen Freienhagen ist offline
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Hi

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their commitment

I must admit that I am surprised by the latest results
I did not know that this family story, if true, took place so long ago
And as for new facts. I am surprised that Carl met his wife who lived so far away from him. In those days, people rather marry people who live up to 20-25km from them.With history, it would be consistent to get married again.But for that he would need his death certificate (from what I know, if he was murdered, then there would be some annotation).At the end, Johann Friedrich Freynhagen had to be the one who emigrated to the US because the US did not exist before

Generally, it was often in Germany that a few names were given to children ?

I did not find anything in Castel Garden

Robert
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  #13  
Alt 29.09.2018, 21:11
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Sorry Robert, but I don't get your last posting.

Did you think that children in Germany were given only 1-2 first names - or that their names were oftentimes the same? Both depends on the area and period of time. But most of them probably had 1 to 3 names. And yes, Annas, Marias, Johanns and the likes were very common.

I too, don't get your remark on "Castel Garden".

Please note that the Cammin connection is simply a possibility. None of us is certain, Carl Freyenhagen of Cammin is your ancestor.

To elaborate I'd like to repeat Annikas or TükkersMitÜ's remark on the village of Heselicht, where the public announcement of Carl's and Natalie's wedding has been made (as has been in Jedwabno). One of the couple probably lived in Heselicht (Łubianka, Powiat toruński, Województwo kujawsko-pomorskie, Poland) or had even been born there. Probably it was Carl, who was from Heselicht: here are my thoughts:

Annika found the Jedwabno death entry for Philippine Elwitz, who died in 1872 at the age of 81. One of her children was a Natalie (Elwitz). In a village of roughly 500 inhabitants there should be only one family with the names Elwitz and Natalie. So Philippine and her children were probably from Jedwabno. Hence Carl could have come from Heselicht - in my view this were much more likely than the Cammin origin I myself came up with.

Don't give up!
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  #14  
Alt 29.09.2018, 21:44
Freienhagen Freienhagen ist offline
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Hi

Answering the question kalex1946 I do not have anyone who knew German so I rely on the translator. That is why searching in the German language area is quite troublesome for me. My only hints are the events from the story which I told of course, except for the genealogy tree extended thanks to you.

Of course, Natalie (Elwitz) comes from Jedwabno because her family still lives in this village, at least that's what the detective claimed. Sory I tell it right now,it is caused by my little genealogy experience, it seemed obvious to me.

Worth mentioning in this story is that the servant with whom my ancestor married worked for him as an outgoing. She came to work for them

From Jedwabno to Łubianka it is 176 km

I think maybe it's a town Heseelicht -Leszcz distance 60 km or Heseelicht -Dresden

Robert
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  #15  
Alt 29.09.2018, 23:59
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Zitat:
Zitat von Freienhagen Beitrag anzeigen
I am surprised that Carl met his wife who lived so far away from him. In those days, people rather marry people who live up to 20-25km from them.
In general, that's true, but there were always some people who, for different reasons, ended up much further from home than 25km. For example, I have an ancestor who in the 1820s got married about 200km from his birth town; another one migrated about 300km in the 1870s.
In Carl and Natalie's marriage document, they're both said to be from Jedwabno, so Carl probably first moved there, then met Natalie while living there.

As for your family legend; it might be true, it might not. We simply don't know yet. Legends have this thing about evolving throughout time, so they often have a true core somewhere, but aren't necessarily true as a complete story. Like maybe it wasn't a direct ancestor of yours, or someone only planned to go to the US and ended up somewhere else instead. The only way to find out for sure is figuring out the lives of your ancestors

Greetings,
Antje
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  #16  
Alt 30.09.2018, 19:07
TükkersMitÜ TükkersMitÜ ist offline weiblich
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Hello,

I'd like to refer back to Posamentierer's post. I did some research on the Elwitz family. It seems that Nathalie's father Johann Friedrich Elwitz died in Mierunsken in 1837, 51 yrs old, wife and 10 children. One of his 10 children was baptised in Mierunsken, another one earlier in Fürstenwalde. Nathalie, however, seems to have been born somewhere else. Although there are some Elwitzes in Jedwabno, they all seem to be children of Johann and Philippine. Most likely, there was no Elwitz family in Jedwabno before Philippine and her children moved there.

Regarding Heselicht in Eastern Prussia, there is no baptism of a Freynhagen in 1830 +/- one year. There isn't a baptism of an Elwitz in 1824 +/- a year. So either the age mentioned in the wedding entry isn't correct or nobody of them was born in Heselicht.
Zitat:
Zitat von Freienhagen Beitrag anzeigen
Worth mentioning in this story is that the servant with whom my ancestor married worked for him as an outgoing. She came to work for them
It seems that Nathalie's family was rather well of, given her father's profession, at least while her father was alive.

Also, Nathalie and her siblings all had very long and very fancy names which was not common in Jedwabno (most people, including my own Jedwabno ancestors, had only one simple name like Anna or Johann). The only people with longer names were the sons and daughters of well-off people, like doctors for example.

This is not a proof but it makes it seem unlikely that Nathalie was the servant girl.

Regards, Annika
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(Johann?) Philipp Frommel (*ca. 1782 WO?, + WANN?) und Anna Catharina Starr/Stoerr (*ca. 1776 WO? + 1850 Lisewo), Niederwörresbach und Lisewo Kolonia, Eheschließung um/nach 1800
Familie Steinbach in Louisenaue und Pollychener Holländer Krs. Landsberg/ Warthe
Familie Schulz in Spiegel Krs. Landsberg/ Warthe
Schäfer Gottfried Wesener + 1781 und Büdner Christian Friedrich Schimkönig oder Winckelmann in Groß Leuthen und Umgebung
Familie Kunde in Pollnow Krs. Schlawe
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  #17  
Alt 30.09.2018, 20:13
Freienhagen Freienhagen ist offline
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Hi

In which Heselicht you were looking for.It was probably a tradition to announce the wedding in the parish of the groom and the bride.

I'm not saying that Natalie was a servant because I do not know whose generation this story is about.

Robert

Geändert von Freienhagen (30.09.2018 um 20:20 Uhr)
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  #18  
Alt 30.09.2018, 21:53
TükkersMitÜ TükkersMitÜ ist offline weiblich
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Hi,

I looked for it in Heeselicht/Osterode. I know you did not say that it was necessarily Nathalia who was the servant, I just wanted to provide arguments that became evident from the research.

Regards,

Annika
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(Johann?) Philipp Frommel (*ca. 1782 WO?, + WANN?) und Anna Catharina Starr/Stoerr (*ca. 1776 WO? + 1850 Lisewo), Niederwörresbach und Lisewo Kolonia, Eheschließung um/nach 1800
Familie Steinbach in Louisenaue und Pollychener Holländer Krs. Landsberg/ Warthe
Familie Schulz in Spiegel Krs. Landsberg/ Warthe
Schäfer Gottfried Wesener + 1781 und Büdner Christian Friedrich Schimkönig oder Winckelmann in Groß Leuthen und Umgebung
Familie Kunde in Pollnow Krs. Schlawe
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  #19  
Alt 10.07.2019, 19:33
Freienhagen Freienhagen ist offline
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Hello again

First, I would like to thank everyone for their help,you are great

I would like to ask you for help again

First Do you have any idea how to check if the baptism from Cammin concerns my ancestor?
I'm worried about this distance. Because I think it's about Burg Stargard which Cammin is a district
I found a lot of documents about Freyenhagen from the area and specifically from Schwerin which lies near Burg Stargard
I would like to know if this is a good trail

What's more, I found an family tree on Ancestry where there is also a person Carl Wilhelm Ferdinand Freyenhagen with his wife Natalia Elwic, but in him the father is Johann Christoph Friedrich Freÿenhagen and his mother Sophia Eleonora Margaretha Pommerencke
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree...=successSource

Regards Robert
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  #20  
Alt 11.07.2019, 15:56
DoroJapan DoroJapan ist offline weiblich
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Hello Robert,

your last post, has a high probability, because Elwic in some regions is not spelt Elwik (this name exist as well, as Elwick) it sounds more like Elwitsch -> which could have changed into Elwitz.

The ending -ic is slavic and -itz the germanization.
source: https://www.onomastik.com/namensendung-itz.php


cheers,
Doro

Just a note (not proofed yet): https://list.genealogy.net/mm/archiv.../msg00047.html - a list in german language about the noble Freyenhagen
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Brandenburg: Lehmann: Französisch Buchholz; Mädicke: Alt Landsberg, Biesdorf; Colbatz/Kolbatz: Groß Köris; Lehniger, Kermas(s), Matzke: Schuhlen-Wiese(Busch)
Schlesien: Neugebauer: Tschöplowitz+Neu-Cöln (Brieg); Gerstenberg: Pramsen; Langner, Melzer, Dumpich: Teichelberg (Brieg); Kraft: Dreißighuben (Breslau), Lorankwitz
Pommern-Schivelbein: Barkow: Falkenberg; Bast: Bad Polzin
Böhmen-Schluckenau: Pietschmann: Hainspach, Schirgiswalde; Kumpf: Alt Ehrenberg 243, 28; Ernst: Nixdorf 192

Geändert von DoroJapan (11.07.2019 um 16:08 Uhr)
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